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| Post Number: 31
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| Post Number: 32
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NZCicada 
Make mine Dry!
Group: Members
Posts: 1382
Joined: Mar. 2006
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Posted on: Mar. 16 2012,11:54 |
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FFF Certified Casting Instructor
Umpqua Signature Tier
Sage Pro
www.saltwaterfly.co.nz
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| Post Number: 33
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| Post Number: 34
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| Post Number: 35
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SAFFer
Group: Members
Posts: 10
Joined: Mar. 2012
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Posted on: Mar. 16 2012,21:41 |
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[QUOTEI can't wrap my head around your logic of slagging off a warranty system claiming (Quite incorrectly I would add) It's a major component of the sale price and is offered without a choice but you are promoting a product which costs twice as much and doesn't have a warranty... How the hell is that your selling point?
Ok so I buy a Sage 1 that cost US$725 what am I paying for? Cost of rod production, advertising, admin costs, pro staff, guarantee and... what else ? What portion is allocated to each? The actual rod cost how much? Please enlighten!
The likes of Sage have always used their guarantee as a major selling point yet to me its seems somewhat bogus as you are paying for something you have already paid for when you have to action it.
I believe Freestone are selling an honest, well made custom product that has been manufactured with hours of care and attention and are sold with no bogus guarantee, no flashy advertising and no pro staff etc. - you're paying for quality and craftsmanship. If you choose to buy it best you look after it otherwise tears ! The bagging its getting is unjustified.
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| Post Number: 36
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NZCicada
Make mine Dry!
Group: Members
Posts: 1382
Joined: Mar. 2006
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Posted on: Mar. 17 2012,13:29 |
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I don;t think there is any bagging at all. Just observations.
I think you have attributed far too much of the sale price to the warranty and this becomes obvious by your breakdown of the Freestone costs...
I'm not going to argue i just felt it important to clarify some facts here that were being very much skewed towards someone Else's marketing bent. Your cost attributions of high end rods, warrantty's etc is absolutely incorrect and would be open to challenge. You can't just make shit up because you've found a rod you like....
I think your viewpoint is totally wrong and based on a fairy tale... but I'm not going to debate it with you. My points have been made.
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FFF Certified Casting Instructor
Umpqua Signature Tier
Sage Pro
www.saltwaterfly.co.nz
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| Post Number: 37
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Tore
Group: Members
Posts: 885
Joined: Jul. 2006
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Posted on: Mar. 18 2012,15:58 |
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Comparing apples and oranges here. 2-3 guys starting up a rod building business is more like a custom shop than a rod manufacturer. They don't even make their own blanks. Hell, I used to run a business like that myself for a few years. Wouldn't call myself a 'rod manufacturer'. In fact, this is part of Steve's business today as well.
What I would be paying for if I bought a Freestone is what I've talked about above. Made-up words and terms stolen from other fields of engineering just don't impress me. In fact, they put me off and draw attention away from what SHOULD be their main selling points. So does slagging of the competitors' products (and potential buyers...).
If you buy a Sage, Scott, or any of the other major US brands the service and warranty is baked into the price, of course. They would be idiots if they didn't do that (hint: they're not idiots...). There is an extra service fee to make the system fair to the ones who really look after their rods.
So when I buy a Sage, Scott, or any of the other major US brands, I know that if I break the rod 15 years from now, I can get a replacement part for it. That security is what I'm paying for at the shop. If I do break it after 15 years, it's certainly not because of a "manufacturer's defect". So there's a small service fee, so that the guys who haven't broken their rods won't have to pay for my mistake.
This is something the smaller brands and/or custom builders can never match.
And never forget that ALL custom builders of carbon rods totally depend on the R&D departments of the major brands. There are maybe a handful of brands around the world that have staff entirely dedicated to R&D. Even Freestone depend totally on Gary Loomis' knowledge on carbon composites. There's a lot of time and money spent on R&D before a product is launched or scrapped (like the 3M resisn that were tested and scrapped by both Sage and Scott).
The results of the processes that go on in the major R&D departments is what will eventually end up at the custom builder's table. Without Gary Loomis there wouldn't be a Freestone carbon rod. Let's be honest here. They've outsourced the actual manufacturing of the rod blank.
Now, how much does it cost for Sage or Scott to develop new materials and tapers, and manufacture everything in-house, from A to Z? And STILL maintain a large degree of handcraft in each rod?!
Put all that into the equation and it would be more fair to compare Freestone rods to Steve's FUSH rods, rather than to the major brands. Steve's rods cost 899.99 for the top ones, with Struble and H&H hardware, and even the aluminium tubes and bags are made locally. How much is a Freestone...?
On a final note: It's a shame that the introduction of what I'm sure are some very fine rods, has come to this. Just goes to show that a good marketing plan can never be underestimated, and what CAN happen if you don't have one, and/or have no idea what you're doing...
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| Post Number: 38
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waitakidan
Group: Members
Posts: 922
Joined: Sep. 2005
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Posted on: Mar. 18 2012,20:17 |
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So Freestone don't even roll their own blanks? Interesting, didn't realize that. I thought one of the guys was a carbon fibre expert, but then they go and outsource to Gary Loomis, one of the all-time experts.
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| Post Number: 39
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Rudy
Group: Members
Posts: 380
Joined: Mar. 2010
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Posted on: Mar. 18 2012,20:43 |
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Those are some good points Tore.
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"you know, trout are kinda like the fat woman of fly fishing - they're picky...but really, they'll eat pretty much anything" - some guy on a fishing movie
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| Post Number: 40
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SAFFer
Group: Members
Posts: 10
Joined: Mar. 2012
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Posted on: Mar. 18 2012,21:02 |
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[QUOTEIf you buy a Sage, Scott, or any of the other major US brands the service and warranty is baked into the price, of course. They would be idiots if they didn't do that (hint: they're not idiots...)
So I wasnt making shit up!
Yip, some interesting points thanks Tore.
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and this is a second thread now, so looking like two rods worth to me now! 
