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| Post Number: 11
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NZCicada 
Make mine Dry!
Group: Members
Posts: 1385
Joined: Mar. 2006
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Posted on: Nov. 09 2007,11:38 |
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I appreciate that Jo, but I have found it an anomoly in NZ compared to the rest of the world. And it does make some conversations difficult. Someone telling you they are using 5lb is virtually meaningless unless you know exactly what brand they are using. Saying 4X is much simpler because you know the important one and the unimportant one is left out all together.
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FFF Certified Casting Instructor
Umpqua Signature Tier
Sage Pro
www.saltwaterfly.co.nz
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| Post Number: 12
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upstream
Group: Members
Posts: 1099
Joined: Jan. 2006
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Posted on: Nov. 09 2007,13:09 |
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I completely agree Clark. You need your X ratings to determine which tippet to use to best present a certain fly. But also when you start to think of leader dynamics, you need to know diameters so that you get the correct tapers to the tippet. this ensures optimal presentation.
Some comparisons of breaking strains:
4X Maxima 4lb
4X Rio Powerflex 6.4lb
4X Stroft 7.9lbs!
So referring only to lbs canbe a bit meaningless.
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| Post Number: 13
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Sage
Group: Members
Posts: 481
Joined: Jul. 2007
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Posted on: Nov. 09 2007,16:22 |
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Hi. Interesting sets of info..
Yes Clark I spent several yrs engineering,,
so all stat'es relating to a piece of Tippet is interesting..
I think the manufactures are trying to please everyone
Lbs... kgs....inches.....mm & X #.
Its the same with the beads,, inches ... mm... grains...
At least all the youngsters in our fishing club are being brought up on Imperial....!!!
Yes I understand the tippet manufactures have tolerances to work with in..
So for me ,its like Jo say's// we want to know. Will it sink ? Diameter... suppleness...will it with- stand the
the size of fish you may encounter... Knot holding ability
When all this is taken into a/c its still a personal..thing!
Sample:-
Powerflex:- 4X 6.4lb .007"
Fluroflex:- 4X 5.0lb .007"
Fluroflexplus 4X 7.0lb .007"
Mainstream Rio, 4X 5.5lb .007"
Umpqua 4X 6lb .007"
Stroft 4X 6lb .007"
Mainstream Rio 4X 5.5lb .007"
Fluro Maxima 4X .009"
So do we go for smallest dia..?/ Wt capable of being
carried?
Mac..
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| Post Number: 14
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3boysb
Group: Members
Posts: 275
Joined: May 2007
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Posted on: Nov. 09 2007,19:33 |
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Was sight fishing to some good fish up one of the regions renounded waters today.
Used 8lb Umpqua.... only had one fish that spooked and I think that was only because the fly dragged right in front of its nose rather than seeing the tippet. Was using a size 14 tiamco hook for the whole day.
Would rather go heavy and put as little stress on the fish and get it in fast and back in its natural enviroment rather than have a prolonged fight with a half rooted fish that struggles to recover. Esp early season when the fish arn't that flash anyway and dont want to move too far from where they are hooked.
Only use lighter than 6lb on spring creeks.
Dont go the whole numbers thing....If I can turn the fly over where I want to with the heaviest tippet I think I will get away with....thats me done.
Only use Umpqua tippet tho....has proved its self time and time again. If I want to take the gloss off and dull it down just run it thru a hand full of sand or really fine gravel.
Only my 2 cents worth.
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Damn work!
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| Post Number: 15
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Sage
Group: Members
Posts: 481
Joined: Jul. 2007
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Posted on: Nov. 09 2007,21:25 |
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Well... We are not doing too bad...
some of the cowboys around here.. use spider wire!!!!
20.....& 25 lb Maxima...
very sporting of them... I don't think they want to play the fish quickly to put it back either!!!!!!
Mac...
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| Post Number: 16
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3boysb
Group: Members
Posts: 275
Joined: May 2007
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Posted on: Nov. 09 2007,21:50 |
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Wouldnt mind the chance to have a crack at a fish that deserves 20 or 25lb!!
How bout Taipan in Mangolia.
Like I said Mac... I like to go as big as I think I will get away with...get them in fast and back into the water.
Personaly I think there is a lot of over compensating ( as in going too light and fighting fish too long) for big fish....spooky fish in NZ.
Poor exsuse for bad tecnique me thinks.
Any one else got an opinion ??
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Damn work!
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| Post Number: 17
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Chris Dore
Play hard!
Group: Members
Posts: 3881
Joined: Jul. 2005
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Posted on: Nov. 11 2007,08:39 |
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I like to use the finest diametre for strength, but it also has to be supple for what I do. The fine diametre both sinks quicker, and presents less surface area to invite drag when fishing dries.
In saying that, if fishing bulky dries such as a humpy etc then I require a thicker, or stifer tippet to prevent the fly from spinning too much in flight and twisting up the leader.
I carry a few types of tippet wen on the stream, but do refer to them by their X rating... it just makes life a lot easier.
Nowadays theres more choice than just umpqa, drennan and maxima!
Chris
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FFF Certified Casting Instructor
SCOTT Pro Staff
www.CHRISDORE.com
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| Post Number: 18
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scottrods
Group: Members
Posts: 2761
Joined: Dec. 2005
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Posted on: Nov. 11 2007,18:53 |
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(NZCicada @ Nov. 09 2007,05:49)
QUOTE I can't believe Kiwi's are so slow to adopt the X system. The lb's system is meaningless unless everyone is using the same brand of tippet. The X system brings it to diameter, diameter to hook size has relevance, breaking strain, from a presentation point of view is meaningless.
Early season I use 3 X, even back country... as the season progresses I drop to 4X and 5X if fish force me to. Now dependant on breaking strain, while all the same diameter, there could be poundage discrepancies in that of a pound or two but the diameter (the only important information really) is the same.
The X system if adopted will make you a better angler because you start to really concentrate on what certain size (diameter) tippets do tot he drift of certain size flies. These days until we get to 6X (Which usually rates around 3 lb these days) we are not really getting into tippets that should break under normal usage so having the right breaking strain is a bit meaningless... having the right diameter to get the correct drift will make all the difference in the world in some circumstances.
Clark - would you care to explain the X system.
What unit is X?
6lb is pretty easy to understand. 6lb average breaking strain. Even though it's not accurate it's simple enough for kiwis to understand 
Of course 6lb line will break at different strains depending on the leader length, condition and stress force applied to it.
The X system isn't also equal across brands. I have compared rio and sightfree from the UK both claiming to be the same 4X but no way are the same.
I pretty much use 10lb and 15lb for my winter rainbows and sea runs. I use 6lb maxima for anything 14 and larger, and 4lb maxima for 16 and smaller.
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Jonathan
www.overland.co.nz 4x4 hire 4 NZ
><(((º>`•.¸¸.•´¯`•.¸><(((º>¸.
•´¯`•.¸. , . ><(((º>`•.¸¸.•´¯`•.¸><(((º>
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| Post Number: 19
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Sage
Group: Members
Posts: 481
Joined: Jul. 2007
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Posted on: Nov. 11 2007,22:14 |
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Jonathan. Iam like you... I can relate to a poundage..
then associate it with a diameter.. If you can use a micrometer you know the thousands of an inch method
its easy to imagin the two measurements...
So when I spent time making my own leaders.DIAMETER
was the only main factor.. Because step downs in the tapper where never grater than .002"......for knot holding.
Chris.. Just out of interest which brands do you use..?
all I ever see brand wise up here,is:- Rio. Maxima. Umpqua.. Stroft I have obtained from Steve...thats about it...
Mac..
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| Post Number: 20
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Tore
Group: Members
Posts: 885
Joined: Jul. 2006
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Posted on: Nov. 11 2007,23:26 |
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In the X system you subtract the "X factor" from 11.
6X: 11-6=5 which means .005 etc.
The thing is that when choosing a tippet for the fly you want to fish, the thickness is the interesting part. Presentation wise the breaking strain is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if you use inches or MMs. I use the X system out of old habit, and I automatically "translate" it to mms.
Allthough thickness varies it's still a more accurate measurement than lbs.
So I look at thickness first, then the strain. And that's where the lbs come in.
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