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Topic: The roll cast< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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Chris Dore Search for posts by this member.
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 15 2006,20:28  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Hi guys, Im bored, and at the computer.... lets work on your roll casting technique! The following is the general content selected from one of my handouts.

The Roll Cast
There are only two types of cast – The overhead, and the roll cast. There are many variations of both, but you will find that all casts share their fundamentals with either of the above.
We use the roll cast in many situations; for straightening line on the water, for whenever we cannot make a back cast due to trees, strong winds etc, or for freeing the line from the surface tension prior to the lift to name just a few. The roll cast is just as important as the overhead in our repertoire, and should be practised regularly.

Physics
The line lies on the water. We slowly sweep the rod around and up behind us, moving the line and freeing it from the surface tension.. We Pause. The ‘D’loop forms and the line hangs stationary, creating an anchor point for the line. Rod tip is moved (accelerated) forward. Butt rotation occurs, flexing (loading) the rod against the hanging ‘D’ loop of line. The stop is made and the rod straightens (unloads). Line accelerates and forms the loop as it passes the rod tip. Loop straightens, and angler lowers the rod.

Breaking it down
We will break the roll cast down into 4 components.
The sweep and lift
The pause – let it hang
The forward flick (chop!)
The follow through

To Begin
Begin with approximately 10 yards of line outside of the rod tip. Point the rod tip to the ground and take up any slack line. Trap the line between the forefinger and the rod. Put your non casting hand in your pocket. Simple, you are ready to begin.

The Sweep and lift
Slowly sweep the rod around behind you and lift the tip to a point just backwards of the upright position. As you do this, you will see the line break free of the water tension and slide across the surface towards you. You do not want to lift this line from the water as of yet, so emphasise ‘slowly’ when sweeping. As the rod approaches the vertical, stop. Now pause.

The Pause
The line should be hanging beneath the rod tip, and curving forward towards the water. Your hand should be level with your ear, and slightly outside your shoulder. The line must lay half a rod length to the side of your body, with the rod cantered so that the tip is positioned directly over the line. Rod and line should now resemble a capital ‘D’, and this is what we call (surprise) the ‘D’ loop!
The hanging line must lay stationary on the water, to create an ‘anchor’ point to assist with the loading of the rod.

The Forward Flick
Now, smoothly accelerate the rod tip forward in a straight line path, building speed before introducing a short, crisp forward snap of the wrist (rotation). You should stop the rod fairly high to ensure the line straightens above the water, and not on it.
Remember that ‘bounce’ feeling we practised in lesson one? We want to feel this when roll casting – emphasize the ‘bounce’. (If you have forgotten what this feels like, flip the rod tip back and forwards without line.)


The Follow Through
Now, as the line passes forward of the stationary rod tip, the loop will form. As this travels forwards, it will pick the remaining line up from upon the water, and straighten in the air. After the line straightens, it will fall to the water. To follow through, simply drop your rod tip in time with the line, to ensure a smooth presentation.

Recap:
The sweep and lift – slowly bring the rod tip around and up
Pause – form the D loop. Check hand position
The forward flick – controlled acceleration with crisp rotation
The follow through –follow the line to the water with rod tip

Discussion

The most important aspect of the roll cast is your ‘D’ loop.  The weight of the fly line hanging in the D loop, in conjunction with the surface tension gripping your anchored line combine to flex (load) the fly rod.
There is a direct correlation between the amount of line in the D loop and the amount of force required in the cast; large D loop = less force, small D loop = more force. The more line in the D loop, the more weight you have to help load the rod.
I find around two feet of fly line upon the surface is enough to anchor your D loop. Any more than this and you will use up too much valuable energy freeing it from the surface tension.
The basic principals of the forward component of the roll cast are the same as those of the overhead cast. I.e.; narrow casting arc with straight tip path = tight forward loop. wide casting arc with convex tip path  = open forward loop

Let me know your results

chris


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Sam
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PostIcon Posted on: May 09 2006,22:24 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Im ok with a short cast but when I try to get it out further the line doesnt always roll off the water. It just collapses. What could I be doing wrong?
thanks

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PostIcon Posted on: May 09 2006,22:48 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

hi sam, thanks for your question.
sounds like you may have too much line 'anchored' on the water. The surface tension gripping this lline will be sapping all the energy out of your loop.
Try anchoring only two feet of line on the water, and hold all the extra line in your D loop.
To do this, after setting your D loop as described above, either reach straight back with the fly rod,(and then bringing your rod hand back to a ppoint level with your ear) or take a step forward. Both tactics will put more line in your D loop and lesssen the amount of line anchored on the water, thus, assist in loading your rod.
Remember - more line in the D loop, use less power in your stroke.
less line in the D loop, use more power to load the rod.

let me know how this works

chris


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PostIcon Posted on: May 11 2006,12:46 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Hi Chris. I am ashamed to admit that in 10 years of trout fishing I have failed to master the roll cast. I have read all the instructions in books, etc but can only manage a cast of any length with a steady wind behind me. I guess that the best solution would be one-on-one tuition.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 11 2006,13:38 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Hello Kevin. Lets work on your roll cast.

The roll cast employs all the fundamentals of the forward component of the overhead cast. The only thing different is in the setting.
Instead of throwing the line behind us (as in the back cast) to set up the forward cast, we create the D loop. The weight of the line in the D loop combines with the surface tension on our 'anchored' line, to flex the rod upon forward acceleration.A hard, abrupt 'Stop' at the completion of our power stroke creates a solid point at which the line can pass the rod tip, creating our loop.

Remember, leave only two feet or so of line on the water, and hold the remainder in your D loop. The more line in the D loop, the less power we need to put into the stroke.

Some common faults:
The most common fault is in not using the flex of the rod effectivly. Most people will try and 'lob' the line forward, instead of ' slinging' the line with the use of the rod.

(An excercise drill- with the rod alone - no line - flick / flip the tip backwards and forwards. Feel this 'bounce'. That is the rod unloading its stored energy and means you are correctly forcing a bend into the blank. This is the feeling we want when fly casting, especially so when roll casting.)
[/B]
The line travels forward in a wide, inefficient loop, maybe fails to straighten?
The end of the line may not have been anchored (remember to pause once the D loop is set, for the water to 'grip' the line), or a 'lobbing' motion was used. Remember, try and accentuate that 'bounce'.

Loop rolls forward, but fails to lift line from the water and collapses?
Not enough line in the D loop, or too much line resting on the water, sapping valuable energy from the cast.

Line unrolls on the water, as opposed to above it.
Either not stopping the rod high enough at the completion of the forward stroke, or using an inneficient stop.

Print out the above, have a little practise on the grass or on a pond, and let me know how you get on

Chris


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PostIcon Posted on: May 16 2006,19:31 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Having, in recent time, gotten into the "wet system" of fishing.... wet casting with wet tackle with wet fishing methods... I have begun using roll casts more, as well as switch, also known as jump roll, casting in order to keep the wet fly wet, for better "entry" and more immediate sinkability, during the cast.

I have yet to master the roll or switch casts as I cross cast and, in the past, use false casts a large percentage of the time on several rivers, which compounds the learning curve difficulties, however, I'm getting there.

One thing I learned recently, which relates to the D shape Chris talks about, was from Tom White, a well known caster, who mentioned to put more of the line behind the caster to get a better roll cast.  It is just a different way of describing the D shape portion of the roll cast.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 06 2006,00:08 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Allen Crise tells me Toms trademark, the 100 foot roll cast is something every caster must view at some stage in their life.
I can only imagine that distance ;)

Chris


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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 07 2006,04:39 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I've seen them! That can be your next lesson, Chris; double hauling on the roll cast :;):  (or underhand cast as we call them in Scandinavia).

This causes the line to be still moving backwards as the leader settles on the water, thus helping to load the rod for the forward cast (since the D is still moving backwards).
The company I worked for in Norway sponsors a couple of highly skilled casters, and so I got to see these guys in action first hand. Very impressive!

Is there any sort of casting club in NZ? If not we should set one up...
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PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 07 2006,14:15 Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

Hi Torre. Implementing the double haul into the roll cast sure does increase velocity and add line into the D, but good form and impechible timing (not to mention a very smooth application of power) are essential, otherwise it all ends up as a bum overhead attempt.

I often introduce a short, zippy haul into the forward stroke of the roll cast, and find this accelerates the line for distance, and or wind avoidance situation.

Good to hear from you Torre, and A casting club could be fun ;)
Maybe it could (or may have already) find its feet right here on Flyshop.com  :;):

Chris


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